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 BOBBY WATSON JAM talks with UMKC's new addition about jazz in the classroom, working with Art Blakey, and coming home.
BW: I am very excited about the possibilities that are in front of me regarding my return to KC. I feel that at this point in my life and career, this is a godsend. It is a chance of a lifetime. I am ready to hear the wind blowing through the trees and grass again. Also, I have never lived in KC as an adult. And I really dig the quality of life there. JAM: What do you remember about your early days as a jazz musician in the KC area? BW: I remember meeting Pat Metheny and going out to the Ramada Inn on I-70 in Independence to sit in with Paul Smith and Gary Sivils. Pat was playing bass as well as guitar. I only knew two songs at the time and Pat, and also Monte Muza, taught me my first standards. I think they were "Stella by Starlight" and "Green Dolphin Street." I was a late bloomer. I couldn't really play on a high level when I was in KC back then, in the early '70s. I got my thing together when I went to the University of Miami, at Pat's suggestion. JAM: Were there things you learned back then that helped you later? BW: I remember that Monte (Muza) told me, "If you want to be a monster, you have to know a thousand tunes, and then sound good on all of them." That was my goal from then on. I also had a strong upbringing in the church, which was my first experience performing in public. I try to carry that feeling with me at all times. JAM: What will your new position at the University of Missouri-Kansas City entail? BW: Teaching advanced improvisation, composition and arranging; directing the jazz band; recruiting students; developing curriculum; and reaching out to the community on behalf of the university. I also hope to develop international ties and exchange programs with conservatories from around the world. JAM: Will you be active as a performer in Kansas City? BW: As active as my schedule will permit. But, I am basically into building a great jazz program (at UMKC) at this period in my life. I surely will be appearing from time to time, though. I love to play. I have to play. It is a necessity. JAM: Will you continue to lead your own band, Horizon, as well as make other appearances around the world? BW: Yes. Part of the requirement of my position is to maintain my international presence. And this position will allow me to be more selective in the gigs I accept. JAM: How about recording? Any plans on that front? BW: I plan to go into the studio with Horizon in the next year. Also, I want to finish my suite for big band, "Afroisms: The Spoken Word" and record that as well. And the 29th Street Saxophone Quartet is planning to get back together next spring. JAM: Now that you've been appointed to a prominent position on UMKC's Conservatory of Music staff, we will assume that you think jazz education is important... BW: Jazz education is very important to me. It ties into the ancient tradition of apprenticeship, which, unfortunately, is becoming a dying tradition. Every master in the past served an apprenticeship with an older master. The classical masters as well as the great painters, dancers and so on. At UMKC, this will be part of my goal -- to serve as a mentor to gifted young musicians, and hopefully provide some guidance for them. It will also keep me current! Art Blakey used to keep young musicians around him, and it kept him young and fresh. I learned that from him. JAM: Phil Woods once said, "I learned how to urinate out of a bus window at 80 miles an hour when I was with Charlie Barnet's band. Try learning that at Berklee!" His point was most likely: you really can't learn everything about being a jazz musician in a classroom. Do you agree or disagree? BW: I agree to a point, and also disagree. Times are different now. There aren't as many gigs as there used to be, where young cats could learn and gain experience. And jazz is a aural tradition, as well as a social art form; the "hang" is essential to learning and developing one's craft. But, many different schools have produced some great musicians over the years. The University of Indiana, Berklee, the University of Miami, William Patterson, Rutgers, Oberlin... just to name a few. Times are changing, and one has to change with them or be left behind. This is the Information Age! Brains, not brawn, dig? So, I only agree in part with Phil. It's true, you cannot learn everything in a classroom. I don't think you ever could. Jazz is an art form that is about trial and error. And I think that every serious musician should go to New York and visit at least once in their life to experience the level of devotion that is part of a scene like that, regardless of what discipline you pursue. JAM: You mentioned Art Blakey. Your years with the Jazz Messengers in the late '70s and early '80s must have been like going to school in many ways. Tell us about what that experience meant to you and what it was like working with Art. BW: Art was the most positive and secure band leader I have ever worked with. He was always reaching out to the young musicians. He taught by example. The bandstand was his sanctuary. Nothing got in the way of his music. And, it was a ball! The time I was with him -- four and a half years -- just flew by. Art also delegated responsibilities to members of the band. The more tired he was, the more he would play. He was a great talent scout. He saved me at least ten years of guessing. He taught me how to build a solo, how to use dynamics. And, he encouraged mistakes! He would get angry with us when he thought we sounded too perfect. I appreciate that now. My mistakes have been the gateways to discovery. JAM: You were with Blakey when Wynton Marsalis first arrived on the scene and joined the group. Could you have predicted then that he would become such major figure in the music world? BW: When Wynton first came into the Messengers, I knew he would be a major force on his instrument. I used to tell everybody about him. Many trumpeters used to try and "cut" him on the bandstand, but he had the skill to prevail. But, I had no idea he would go on to be considered the "spokesman" for jazz and win a Pulitzer. It is truly amazing to me, I must admit. Wynton is very serious about music and I learned a lot about being a great instrumentalist from him. I am very excited about the possibilities that are in front of me regarding my return to KC. I feel that at this point in my life and career, this is a godsend. It is a chance of a lifetime. JAM: Why, in your opinion, has he also become such a magnet for controversy? BW: Wynton has had to grow and learn in the public eye, which can be very difficult and stressful. Also, he said some very strong things about Miles and electric music early on in his career. Wynton is very intelligent, and very articulate. But I think he has missed a lot of experiences that would enrich his music. But, he can play, and he can "walk the walk" with his trumpet. So, it is very difficult to challenge him about music. As far as "controversy" is concerned, these days our society likes controversy and scandals. Look at Monica Lewinsky. And Joey Buttafuoco. More people know their names than that of Duke Ellington! And that's a shame. They have agents and managers. They get paid for appearances. They write books, and they make the covers of major publications. Everything that any artist would want. Dig it: they are invading our world! The world of entertainment. I mean, what about "Who Wants To Marry a Millionaire?" Check it out; toiling toward excellence doesn't sell these days. JAM: Speaking of controversy, another prominent jazz artist with midwestern roots had some interesting things to say recently about Kenny G's 1999 "duet" with Louis Armstrong on "What a Wonderful World." Would you like to add any thoughts to that discussion? BW: I think the bottom line about that is: Kenny G needs Pops to validate him. But, Pops does not need Kenny G to enrich his legacy. That's the sad part about this. It is exploitation to the highest degree. The difference between New York and KC -- or any other city on the planet -- is the level of devotion that is New York. You can be the best car thief in Cleveland, but go to New York, and you will see a level of felony that is unsurpassed. JAM: Let's talk about your influences. Who have they been and why? BW: Charlie Parker, because of his creativity and spontaneity; Cannonball Adderley, because of his joy and articulation; Jackie McLean, because he approached the alto like a tenor; Wayne Shorter for his melodic approach; Coltrane for his probing of the music; Sonny Rollins for his rhythmic style and humor. But, these days, I am influenced by every musician who ever picked up the horn. And there are just too many to mention in this interview. Playing jazz is more than a notion. Many musicians have dedicated their lives to, and have died for this music. I respect that very much. JAM: You once recorded an album that was a tribute to Johnny Hodges, which surprised some people in that you seem to be more out of the Bird school than Hodges. What inspired that tribute? BW: It was a suggestion of Cobi Narita, a great lady who used to have a space called The Jazz Center of New York. It started out as a quartet date, but at the suggestion of Jim Hartog, I listened to Lester's small group recording of the 40's and became obsessed with the arrangements and Hodges' sound and approach. He was a true virtuoso and original. Such beauty! Wow! I wanted to have some of that in my sound. JAM: Speaking of Charlie Parker, he would have turned 80 this August. Of course, it's pure speculation now, but had he lived a long life, what do you think he would have gone on to add to his legacy? BW: I think he would have been influenced by Coltrane and the modal innovations of Miles. I also think he might of even "crossed over." He could play anything. JAM: Jazz seems to be in kind of a schizophrenic state these days, what with the revival of swing, the demise of many jazz clubs, the birth of such genres as "smooth jazz" and so on. What's your take on the current state of the music, and where do you think it might be heading? BW: I think that there is a new language being developed in the world now, a more chromatic approach. I feel that the next innovation in jazz lies in form. Form over harmonies. The rhythms of the phrases. The tension and release of the lines. Right now, the record companies are dictating the scene. This will pass, because jazz is like a river, it has to flow. I played "smooth jazz" in high school with my band in the early '70s. We didn't have a singer and I played the melodies on my horn. Smooth Jazz is instrumental pop music to me. I think the young people are coming to the music again. I believe the young ones will elevate the music once again. There have been several generations that have not experienced acoustic music. I think this is vital to the human spirit, and eventually it has to happen again. Another problem I see is that most of the jazz "stars" do not have a song that they are known for. I can sing classic jazz compositions without mentioning the names of the artists and most people will know the artists. We (the Messengers), could not get out of the hall without playing "Blues March" or "Moanin'." Let me give you a few examples: "April in Paris," "Round Midnight," "Song for My Father," "St. Thomas," "Cantaloupe Island," "Poincianna," "Giant Steps," "The Sidewinder." Dig? That's what is missing today. The signature song. JAM: After living for so many years in New York, do you think you'll be able to adjust to the slower pace of KC? BW: Absolutely. I embrace that pace. It is what I need right now. The spaces between the notes are just as important as the momentum. The pace of New York is working against me now. When I was younger, it was exciting. Now it is kind of oppressive. Kansas City has a rich tradition in jazz. And the vibes are there. The midwest is special. It nurtures social graces, sincerity and hospitality. All of which are important to the music. JAM: Not to get into comparisons, but how would you characterize the differences between New York jazz and Kansas City jazz? BW: The difference between New York and KC -- or any other city on the planet -- is the level of devotion that is New York. You can be the best car thief in Cleveland, but go to New York, and you will see a level of felony that is unsurpassed. Everything in New York is faster and deeper because it is a matter of survival from one day to the next. And there are many people there trying to do the same thing, from all around the world. Kansas City has a rich tradition in jazz. And the vibes are there. The midwest is special. It nurtures social graces, sincerity and hospitality. All of which are important to the music. Many musicians don't have those qualities. JAM: Earlier this year two more highly regarded KC jazz artists -- Kevin Mahogany and Karrin Allyson -- made the move to the east coast, just like you did years ago, and just like so many others have done over the decades. Why are such migrations necessary for aspiring jazz musicians? BW: As I said earlier, everyone should go to New York at some point in their life just to see where they stand. You know, the east coast is comprised of the original colonies. It is very compact. And very fast. It is also the oldest part of America. There is that connection with the original roots of the country in the east. And they are very deep. If you can make it on the east coast, you can make it anywhere. JAM: The young pianist Eldar Djangirov recently moved here from Russia. Could that be the beginning of a trend where up and coming jazz artists move to KC? BW: I certainly hope so! I feel the sky is the limit in Kansas City for jazz. JAM: We're putting many of your fellow KC saxophonists on the desert island this issue, and we won't let you go without asking the same question. Which five albums would you just have to have if you ever got shipwrecked on the island with the great stereo and the comfy chair? BW: Only five? JAM: Only five. BW: Wow. OK. John Coltrane's "Love Supreme." "Charlie Parker with Strings." Billie Holiday's "Lady in Satin." Miles Davis and "Kind of Blue." Art Blakey's "Free for All." And Ella Fitzgerald's "Live in Berlin." JAM: As you know, Bobby, the Kansas City jazz community is very excited about your return. The KC Jazz Ambassadors and JAM both wish you all the best of luck as you begin this new chapter in your career. BW: Thank you! I hope to be an asset to the university and to the jazz community in Kansas City. I am truly excited about the opportunity that has been given to me. It is truly a blessing. © Mike Metheny 2000 RETURN TO AUGUST/SEPTEMBER 2000 MAIN INDEX © Kansas City Jazz Ambassadors 1996-2001. All rights reserved. |
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