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 Dr. Mike Pettengell © 1998 Mike Metheny JAM talks with the host of KCUR's "Take Five" about jazz, jazz radio and how a college English teacher developed a passion for both.
CC: I think I was in about the fifth grade when I first saw Steve Allen in "The Benny Goodman Story." I thought, "Man, this is where it's at!" So I took up the clarinet in school and eventually met a guy (in the band) who was playing the trumpet. He was buying all of Louie Armstrong's albums, and I was buying all of Benny Goodman's albums, so we used to hang out together and listen to those albums. This was when I was in the sixth or seventh grade. JAM: Here in the Kansas City area? CC: No, I grew up in Jonesboro, Arkansas. JAM: So, you were really into the music as early as junior high school... CC: Yes. And it just mushroomed from there. I started listening to swing music all through junior and senior high plus everything else, rock 'n roll, classical, all that. Then, one night, I was listening to a jazz radio show and they played Fats Waller's "Sheik of Araby." It was one of those moments when I heard something that just blew my mind and really took me away. So then I had to buy all of Fats Waller's records. I was into his music all the way into college. JAM: Where did you go to college? CC: Arkansas State in Jonesboro. I started as a music major, but switched to English. I still played in the jazz band, though. They handed me an alto, and told me to play the melodies... never let me solo or anything (laughs). But I was also given a whole stack of Charlie Parker records to take home over a weekend, and again, it was one of those moments when you think, "Oh man, this is totally different." JAM: How did you first become aware of more modern, post-bop jazz? CC: Somebody loaned me "Live at the Blackhawk" by Miles Davis. And again, it was another one of those moments. I thought, "Well, this is the best so far... This stuff just keeps getting better!" (laughs) So then I really started listening to Miles. And once you start listening to him, you're listening to everybody. JAM: What brought you to Kansas City? CC: I was teaching English in a little school in Helena, Arkansas. It was a lot like Peace Corps work; it was a very poor area, the average yearly income was about $8,000. After two years there, I started sending out (teaching) applications all over the United States -- any place I thought I might fit in. I sent out about 100 applications altogether. One school where I applied was KCK Community College, and while I was here for the interview, I went down to the Phoenix where they had live jazz. I thought, "If I get offered the job, I'm taking it!" JAM: How did you get into doing radio? CC: It started out just as a hobby. And, for the most part, it really still is. When I was working on my masters at the University of Mississippi I starting working with Bill Ferris who does a show on Mississippi Public Radio called "Highway 61." I was hired to program his show -- I wasn't on the air myself -- and I was able to get into the archives and put together a blues show once a week, just as a part-time job. It was a lot of fun. And I was able to learn all the names, and learn what all those guys sounded like. So really, it was through the blues that I first got into radio. Then up at Bowling Green, Ohio, at Bowling Green State University, where I got a Ph. D. in American Culture, one summer they needed DJs at the college radio station. I walked in and they said, "Well, OK, sit down and go for it." (laughs) It was one of those situations where there weren't many students around that summer, so you didn't know if you were going to be on for three hours, or six hours, or all night long. I did all kinds of shows there. I did a blues show, I did my first jazz show, I did a show of psychedelic garage band music from the sixties... I was real bad (laughs), and I didn't know what the heck I was doing, but it was good experience. That's what really got me into doing radio. JAM: This was before Helena... CC: Right. "... if you know what's good from the past, you can usually figure out what's good now. That's something I think is pretty important.." -- Mike Pettengell JAM: Did you do any radio during your two years there? CC: Well, there were two radio stations in Helena. One was the black rap station, and the other was the white country station. And never did the two meet, if you know what I mean (laughs). I had a rock-a-billy show on the white station -- a famous AM station, KFFA -- and I had a jazz show on the black station. I think I was the only white guy ever to work there. I showed up the first night, the DJ looked at me and he immediately got on the phone and called the owner. "There's some white guy here who says he works here." (laughs) It was commercial radio; I had to actually go out and find my own sponsors. So I was basically paying them $200 a month to let me do my show. JAM: And then you came to Kansas City... CC: And then I came to Kansas City. When I first got here it seemed like kind of a rough city. I got rear-ended on Troost by a stolen car... Then I had to put my favorite dog to sleep. He was a deformed, pitbull-swamp dog mix named "Ned." Ned was a real force of nature, and he was biting everybody. You know, in Arkansas if you see a giant deformed pitbull coming at you, you run away! People here were trying to pet him! (laughs) After Ned was gone, I needed to do something that would raise my spirits, so I checked out KKFI one day. I talked to their station manager, Greg Hansen, and it just so happened they needed somebody. I jumped right in and started doing an afternoon jazz show there. JAM: And that lead to your current show on KCUR? CC: Right. I'd been filling in for Robert Moore on KCUR -- who also worked at KKFI -- then his spot opened up. I applied and got it. JAM: What are the requirements of a good jazz radio host? CC: One requirement is that you have to listen a lot. And you have to get your historical background really down. Once you have that, you can usually identify what's good in terms of the new stuff. In other words, if you know what's good from the past, you can usually figure out what's good now. That's something I think is pretty important. You also have to know what people want to hear. I play some things I don't really like -- not very often (laughs) -- but I know it's music that has an audience. JAM: One thing that is apparent in your programming is the diversity of music you play. Are your own personal tastes that eclectic, or do you have a favorite jazz style? CC: I'm mainly into the music of the '50s and '60s. And if I'm not careful, I tend to play just that all the time. But, if the music is true to itself, if it provides the listener with a true experience, then I like it, no matter what. That goes for jazz, or rock, or punk, or whatever. If it's a true artistic expression, then it works for me. But I do tend to think that the real heyday of jazz, when things were really being invented, was the '50s and '60s. So that's why I tend to concentrate on that period. I do try to play some of everything, though, from the '70s and '80s right up to the new releases. JAM: How do you go about auditioning those new releases? CC: The hardest part is trying to pick the good cuts. That's when you really have to sit down and listen closely. And to be honest, most of what's sent to me at the station is crap. I have stacks of things that I won't play because I think it would drive my listeners crazy. So, again, you have to sit through a lot of stuff in order to find the real gems. That's the hardest part about listening to new releases. JAM: As someone who clearly has an affinity for, as you frequently say on the air, "classic jazz," how do you feel about the recent efforts of the so called "young lions" to recapture the essence of the older recordings? CC: I would agree with what most of the critics have said, which is that it's great to have these new guys playing great music. No doubt about it. But the problem is there aren't that many great composers of jazz out there. So you end up doing a lot of the same old standards again much like they were done 30 or 40 years ago. Now, I tend to like that, but it would also be nice to have some real innovators, too. But maybe it's just part of the general evolution of the music, where right now we're re-exploring what has already been done, and slowly but surely we'll work our way into a time where there will be some new innovators. I mean, Wynton Marsalis is the greatest trumpet player who's ever lived. He can play like anybody. He can play better Louie than Louie did, better Miles than Miles did. But in terms of stepping out and saying something totally new and different, that's the tough part, because so much has already been said. I think Wynton is really trying to do that, especially with some of the big compositions he's written, but I'm still waiting for someone to come along and just wow everybody and take things in a new direction. JAM: Do you have any favorites among the jazz musicians of the '90s? CC: I tend to go with the guys who are exploring the avant-garde. There's a very weird guitar player named Joe Morris I really like. But those jazz musicians really have it bad because most people don't like the avant-garde anyway; and the new avant-guarde is even weirder than it used to be (laughs). Nobody plays them, and every once in a while you'll see them in Down Beat talking about how they can't find a job. It's commendable that they stick with where their art is taking them, though. I really respect that. JAM: What do you think the role or purpose of jazz radio should be? CC: Probably the number one purpose it to keep the music alive. And to allow people who haven't heard this sort of music in a while to re-experience it. And to allow people who've never heard it to get into it for the first time. I didn't have jazz radio when I was growing up, so I had to rely on just luck to push me in certain directions. But (in Kansas City), if you listen to my show you'll get a pretty good overview, from the very beginnings of jazz up through today. I wish I'd had that in my little town in Arkansas. But it just wasn't there. So, in a way, I think I'm sort of providing a public service. On one hand, I think this music is just so fantastic it has to be played on the radio. And I also think the jazz players themselves like to hear this music on the radio. Maybe they haven't heard it all yet, or maybe they will be inspired by something they hear. JAM: Is Kansas City a good market for jazz radio? CC: I think it's one of the best. We've got lots of people here, we've got lots of live jazz going on... Obviously people are interested in the music. We've also got the whole historical thing. I think it's a perfect place because we also have a long way to go. People are interested in jazz, but there's still room for that interest to grow. JAM: Do you get a chance to go out and hear live jazz as often as you'd like? CC: Well, I work four nights a week, but on Fridays and Saturdays I usually go out and try to hear some jazz. Sometimes it's better than others (laughs), but yes, I try to check out all the jazz places on weekends. JAM: Let's talk a little about your "other life" as an English teacher. CC: Yes. My paying gig (laughs). When I got out of music (in college) I was searching for something else to do. I thought, "Well, I like to read... I'll become an English major!" And, I liked school enough that I just kept going and going until finally I got my Ph. D. Then I started teaching, which is a lot like going to school except you can't hide in the back row (laughs). You have to be up there and know what you're talking about. At KCKCC I teach everything. I teach every lit class you can imagine, writing classes, film classes... And I try to mix in jazz whenever I can. In my writing classes it's a real mix of studying art, music, film and literature, as well as learning how to write. So it fits in well with my overall view that you have to be connected to all of the arts in your life. You have to have enough money to live, of course, but to be happy it's just as important to be connected to art, and art as a creative process. JAM: How do teaching English and doing a jazz radio show go together? Or do they? CC: One of the requirements I have in my writing classes is that they listen to Public Radio as much as possible during the semester. Mostly so they can learn about what's going on in the world. But they inevitably will end up listening to my show sometimes. I do have an assignment where they pick either a classical composer or a jazz player/composer and then write a paper on that person after listening to that person's music. So it fits together that way. And sometimes if I'm teaching African-American lit, I'll do a long section on jazz; we'll read Miles' autobiography, I'll even have a little jazz combo come in and play. JAM: Like many of our past interview subjects, we will now transport you to the JAM magazine "desert island." What albums would you like to have with you? CC: One would be the album that got me into modern jazz, "Miles at the Blackhawk." (pause) I would also have to have the Atlantic boxed set on Mingus... And the Pacific boxed set on Chet (Baker); Chet is one of my all-time favorites. And maybe a good smattering of the avant-guarde... Like some Cecil Taylor... just in case someone I didn't like came to visit me (laughs). I could put on some Cecil Taylor and then they would go away! JAM: This has certainly been one of our more lively interviews. Any final thoughts? CC: Well, it's taken me 15 years to get to a steady gig on Public Radio. I'm having a great time doing it, and I hope to continue doing it, hopefully for the rest of my life. I'm a real "Midtowner"... I live in a little basement in Midtown with an old Boston terrier and a cat that I rescued from the wild... So, right now, life is good. (Mike Pettengell hosts "Take Five" on KCUR-FM, 89.3, Monday through Thursday, 9:00 p.m. to midnight.) RETURN TO OCTOBER/NOVEMBER 1998 MAIN INDEX ------------------------------------------------------------------------ © Kansas City Jazz Ambassadors 1996-2001. All rights reserved. |
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